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	<title>Comments on: Passports and Immigration and &#8220;Low Quality Foreigners&#8221;</title>
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		<title>By: gordsellar</title>
		<link>http://www.gordsellar.com/2007/12/24/passports-and-immigration-and-low-quality-foreigners/comment-page-1/#comment-28014</link>
		<dc:creator>gordsellar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Dec 2007 14:44:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gordsellar.com/2007/12/24/passports-and-immigration-and-low-quality-foreigners/#comment-28014</guid>
		<description>Brandon, 

Thanks. It&#039;s just a blog. :)

I see what you think. I also happen to think it&#039;s sad how few foreigners here bother to try learning the language... and my own laxness puts me in the bad as well. In most countries, foreign workers have to deal with the government in the local language, even if, ironically, the officials we&#039;re dealing with got their jobs based on (ostensible) English tests like TOEIC. 

The reality, though, is that Anglo foreign workers are the biggest foreign worker population here, and most of them are relatively transient and unlikely to learn the language... so it would be easier for &lt;i&gt;everyone&lt;/i&gt; concerned if they&#039;d just have at least some English-capable (and Chinese-capable, and Japanese-capable) peoplework at each immigration office, and there must be at least one person in the Ministry who could be assigned to putting forth official translations of official documents in English translation and in a universal file format.

(The use of .hwp files for online publication of rules pertaining to foreign workers -- in Korean only -- was stunningly frog-in-a-well if you ask me. I&#039;ve told students time and time again that the only people in the world who use that &lt;s&gt;wretched excuse for a&lt;/s&gt; word processor(1) are Koreans, and that for anyone else, they should use the more universal .doc files or .rtf or even .txt file formats. Apparently nobody&#039;s mentioned that to the government. Or maybe they know that very well and didn&#039;t intend the original announcement to become too public, knowing a panic would ensue and that the date was going to be changed but not wanting to dilute the original &quot;tough stance&quot; by mentioning it?)

I too am curious as to the social reaction -- is any -- but really, after some reflection I&#039;m not sure what the heightened restrictions will achieve in the long run, except stopping those 빨리빨리 hirings like mine was, all last-minute, from going through successfully. It&#039;s not going to be &lt;i&gt;that&lt;/i&gt; much harder, especially to the people who spent time thinking it over to begin with. This will only really keep out criminals and people too cheap to pay $25 for a background check. I know very few people who couldn&#039;t get past that, and moreover, since the checks can be done from here, at least for Canadians, it won&#039;t really weed out the flakes already here, at least not so effectively. 

Who knows, though?

(1) I have experience with the Hangeul word processor, and find it wretched on its own merits. I&#039;m not putting it down because it&#039;s Korean, even though sometimes Koreans think so, and take it as a national insult that I despite the nation&#039;s favorite word processor. At least one Korean I know who translates professionally intensely dislikes the program and confessed bafflement as to why people continue to use it when so many alternatives exist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brandon, </p>
<p>Thanks. It&#8217;s just a blog. :)</p>
<p>I see what you think. I also happen to think it&#8217;s sad how few foreigners here bother to try learning the language&#8230; and my own laxness puts me in the bad as well. In most countries, foreign workers have to deal with the government in the local language, even if, ironically, the officials we&#8217;re dealing with got their jobs based on (ostensible) English tests like TOEIC. </p>
<p>The reality, though, is that Anglo foreign workers are the biggest foreign worker population here, and most of them are relatively transient and unlikely to learn the language&#8230; so it would be easier for <i>everyone</i> concerned if they&#8217;d just have at least some English-capable (and Chinese-capable, and Japanese-capable) peoplework at each immigration office, and there must be at least one person in the Ministry who could be assigned to putting forth official translations of official documents in English translation and in a universal file format.</p>
<p>(The use of .hwp files for online publication of rules pertaining to foreign workers &#8212; in Korean only &#8212; was stunningly frog-in-a-well if you ask me. I&#8217;ve told students time and time again that the only people in the world who use that <s>wretched excuse for a</s> word processor(1) are Koreans, and that for anyone else, they should use the more universal .doc files or .rtf or even .txt file formats. Apparently nobody&#8217;s mentioned that to the government. Or maybe they know that very well and didn&#8217;t intend the original announcement to become too public, knowing a panic would ensue and that the date was going to be changed but not wanting to dilute the original &#8220;tough stance&#8221; by mentioning it?)</p>
<p>I too am curious as to the social reaction &#8212; is any &#8212; but really, after some reflection I&#8217;m not sure what the heightened restrictions will achieve in the long run, except stopping those 빨리빨리 hirings like mine was, all last-minute, from going through successfully. It&#8217;s not going to be <i>that</i> much harder, especially to the people who spent time thinking it over to begin with. This will only really keep out criminals and people too cheap to pay $25 for a background check. I know very few people who couldn&#8217;t get past that, and moreover, since the checks can be done from here, at least for Canadians, it won&#8217;t really weed out the flakes already here, at least not so effectively. </p>
<p>Who knows, though?</p>
<p>(1) I have experience with the Hangeul word processor, and find it wretched on its own merits. I&#8217;m not putting it down because it&#8217;s Korean, even though sometimes Koreans think so, and take it as a national insult that I despite the nation&#8217;s favorite word processor. At least one Korean I know who translates professionally intensely dislikes the program and confessed bafflement as to why people continue to use it when so many alternatives exist.</p>
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		<title>By: Brandon</title>
		<link>http://www.gordsellar.com/2007/12/24/passports-and-immigration-and-low-quality-foreigners/comment-page-1/#comment-27998</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Dec 2007 11:19:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gordsellar.com/2007/12/24/passports-and-immigration-and-low-quality-foreigners/#comment-27998</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the link to my blog.  After reading a bit of yours, I&#039;m  a bit envious.  Nice blog....

Well, I appreciate your post about immigration.  It will be interesting to see how the country reacts to what does happen to the heightened restrictions.  It&#039;s something that should of been implemented a long time ago, but their implementation has been weak.  It&#039;s sad to say after the 10&#039;s of thousands of English teachers that have been here to teach, the gov&#039;t offices still can&#039;t communicate that effectively to the English speaking public at large.  We&#039;ve got a few years to go, I guess (&amp; I hope the sooner than the later)....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the link to my blog.  After reading a bit of yours, I&#8217;m  a bit envious.  Nice blog&#8230;.</p>
<p>Well, I appreciate your post about immigration.  It will be interesting to see how the country reacts to what does happen to the heightened restrictions.  It&#8217;s something that should of been implemented a long time ago, but their implementation has been weak.  It&#8217;s sad to say after the 10&#8217;s of thousands of English teachers that have been here to teach, the gov&#8217;t offices still can&#8217;t communicate that effectively to the English speaking public at large.  We&#8217;ve got a few years to go, I guess (&amp; I hope the sooner than the later)&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: gordsellar</title>
		<link>http://www.gordsellar.com/2007/12/24/passports-and-immigration-and-low-quality-foreigners/comment-page-1/#comment-27858</link>
		<dc:creator>gordsellar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Dec 2007 02:16:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gordsellar.com/2007/12/24/passports-and-immigration-and-low-quality-foreigners/#comment-27858</guid>
		<description>Mark, 

Do they? I looked at the website and it said 120 days, and that there&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/crimrec/finger_faq_e.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;no possibility of an expedited fee&lt;/a&gt;, but maybe I&#039;ll look into contacting them. They seem pretty backwards, really: you can&#039;t even download the form, they have to mail it to you. What century is it in Canada?

That&#039;s funny -- I never thought to consider frat boys as &quot;risk takers&quot; seeing as they&#039;re such ovine conformists. I think we may never be rid of them, but culling their numbers would probably result if it were a pain in the ass to get here. However, since there&#039;s no attendant increase in incentive to come here, it&#039;s not as if qualified teachers are going to flood in to take up the slack. (Well, maybe some of those who lost their jobs in Japan, but I suspect lots of them will also go to places easier to get into.)

This isn&#039;t necessarily bad if, like me, you think the collapse of the &lt;i&gt;hakwon&lt;/i&gt; industry would be a good thing for Korean society in the long run. But it could in the short run be troublesome, since it&#039;s such a big industry here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark, </p>
<p>Do they? I looked at the website and it said 120 days, and that there&#8217;s <a href="http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/crimrec/finger_faq_e.htm" rel="nofollow">no possibility of an expedited fee</a>, but maybe I&#8217;ll look into contacting them. They seem pretty backwards, really: you can&#8217;t even download the form, they have to mail it to you. What century is it in Canada?</p>
<p>That&#8217;s funny &#8212; I never thought to consider frat boys as &#8220;risk takers&#8221; seeing as they&#8217;re such ovine conformists. I think we may never be rid of them, but culling their numbers would probably result if it were a pain in the ass to get here. However, since there&#8217;s no attendant increase in incentive to come here, it&#8217;s not as if qualified teachers are going to flood in to take up the slack. (Well, maybe some of those who lost their jobs in Japan, but I suspect lots of them will also go to places easier to get into.)</p>
<p>This isn&#8217;t necessarily bad if, like me, you think the collapse of the <i>hakwon</i> industry would be a good thing for Korean society in the long run. But it could in the short run be troublesome, since it&#8217;s such a big industry here.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.gordsellar.com/2007/12/24/passports-and-immigration-and-low-quality-foreigners/comment-page-1/#comment-27841</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Dec 2007 16:27:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gordsellar.com/2007/12/24/passports-and-immigration-and-low-quality-foreigners/#comment-27841</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve had background checks done by the RCMP before, and thought they had an expedited process for people trying to get a VISA. 

I don&#039;t know if you&#039;ll ever be able to eliminate the fratboys - teaching English overseas is always going to attract people who are naturally risk takers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve had background checks done by the RCMP before, and thought they had an expedited process for people trying to get a VISA. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if you&#8217;ll ever be able to eliminate the fratboys &#8211; teaching English overseas is always going to attract people who are naturally risk takers.</p>
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		<title>By: gordsellar</title>
		<link>http://www.gordsellar.com/2007/12/24/passports-and-immigration-and-low-quality-foreigners/comment-page-1/#comment-27838</link>
		<dc:creator>gordsellar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Dec 2007 14:02:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gordsellar.com/2007/12/24/passports-and-immigration-and-low-quality-foreigners/#comment-27838</guid>
		<description>Mark, 

Yes, it&#039;s one of those things that even most of the people enforcing don&#039;t believe in, the illegality of private teaching. Sad, that. 

Charles, 

Yeah. I mean, I have a slightly fatty liver, and the doctors asked whether I drink much. I told them no, and they said causes number two and three were fatty food and being overweight. I imagine some combination of a fatty liver and some kind of blood analysis would be used, but really, I wonder how many Korean professionals -- especially doctors and government bureaucrats -- would pass such an inspection? There are a few foreign alkies here but usually that&#039;s an open secret, and they&#039;re tolerated if they function passably well. But yeah, the one standard alcohol addiction test that I&#039;ve heard of is the &lt;a href=&quot;http://eib.emcdda.europa.eu/html.cfm/index3647EN.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;EuropASI&lt;/a&gt;, which seems like a psychological test --  a series of questions. False negatives would be common, one imagines... so I&#039;m guessing it&#039;s a blood test, probably looking for enzymes that indicate heavy alcohol consumption. Maybe an ultrasound of the liver? Or maybe &lt;a href=&quot;http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1200/is_n5_v133/ai_6342571&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this new blood test&lt;/a&gt;?

Jerome, 

Yes, but don&#039;t forget that I consider it mostly a political stunt in reaction to one pedophile. (Though there are surely others in-country; I ran across one guy who bragged of being thrown out of Taiwan for such an act.)

If the Korean government makes it harder to come, there may well be a shortage, but I don&#039;t imagine we who remain will &lt;i&gt;necessarily&lt;/i&gt; be treated better here. In fact, I&#039;m a little scared of how much of an increase in &quot;demands&quot; put on us might occur. It&#039;s a social annoyance I could do without.

The other thing is, a lot of sane, rational potential English teachers -- the ones who aren&#039;t lifers, but are competent and would be good for a few years -- will probably gravitate to where it&#039;s easier. After all, I wasn&#039;t a TESOL genius when I first came here, but I certainly couldn&#039;t have come for my first job if it had required a long wait for a criminal record. I don&#039;t think US hiring practices, or French ones, are anywhere near as last-minute as hiring (and so many other things) are here in Korea.  

Those who complain about the need for a criminal record check are silly; those who complain about the need for a criminal record check in a timeframe that is impossible by the rates of the countries where most foreign workers come from are more understandable. If the date for implementation hadn&#039;t have been changed, my post would have been far more negative.

Also, one point of comparison is Japan. It&#039;s long been more demanding for foreigners to get themselves set up in Japan than in Korea, or so I&#039;ve heard, but there are still a lot of dumbass white frat boys running around there. So maybe it won&#039;t affect much except reducing the flow of those teachers not quite specifically interested enough in Korea to to brave the process, but not so unqualified as the frat boys who are so common here now.  

After all, the good-foreigner/bad-foreigner dichotomy leaves out a huge patch in the middle, which is people who are fine, do their jobs as well as your average Korean in the same position, but aren&#039;t particularly brilliant... qualified enough, but not superstars. Frankly, the pay and conditions in most positions here aren&#039;t good enough to attract superstars, which is part of the reason there are so many losers here -- better pay and conditions, as well as hiring based on skills and qualification instead of more superficial factors, would have the standard effect of making better competitors apply and win the majority of jobs, leaving the frat boys back home in Oshawa and Frederickton and Minnesota or wherever.

Also, I think it&#039;s crazy to require someone to get a visa for a new job in his or her home country. Any country outside of the one where the job will be worked should suffice, and it&#039;s a ridiculous expense to require for no apparent reason, especially for those flying to Canada, the USA, Europe, or Australia. I don&#039;t know whether that particular rule has been scrapped, but it&#039;s annoying that something as dumb as that is included in what, as I say, could instead have been quite a sensible piece of legislation. (Likewise the annotation of diplomas; the use of sealed, signed transcripts sent from the Universities where the applicant graduated directly to the hiring organization should suffice, just as -- to my knowledge -- they do in the rest of the developed world.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark, </p>
<p>Yes, it&#8217;s one of those things that even most of the people enforcing don&#8217;t believe in, the illegality of private teaching. Sad, that. </p>
<p>Charles, </p>
<p>Yeah. I mean, I have a slightly fatty liver, and the doctors asked whether I drink much. I told them no, and they said causes number two and three were fatty food and being overweight. I imagine some combination of a fatty liver and some kind of blood analysis would be used, but really, I wonder how many Korean professionals &#8212; especially doctors and government bureaucrats &#8212; would pass such an inspection? There are a few foreign alkies here but usually that&#8217;s an open secret, and they&#8217;re tolerated if they function passably well. But yeah, the one standard alcohol addiction test that I&#8217;ve heard of is the <a href="http://eib.emcdda.europa.eu/html.cfm/index3647EN.html" rel="nofollow">EuropASI</a>, which seems like a psychological test &#8212;  a series of questions. False negatives would be common, one imagines&#8230; so I&#8217;m guessing it&#8217;s a blood test, probably looking for enzymes that indicate heavy alcohol consumption. Maybe an ultrasound of the liver? Or maybe <a href="http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1200/is_n5_v133/ai_6342571" rel="nofollow">this new blood test</a>?</p>
<p>Jerome, </p>
<p>Yes, but don&#8217;t forget that I consider it mostly a political stunt in reaction to one pedophile. (Though there are surely others in-country; I ran across one guy who bragged of being thrown out of Taiwan for such an act.)</p>
<p>If the Korean government makes it harder to come, there may well be a shortage, but I don&#8217;t imagine we who remain will <i>necessarily</i> be treated better here. In fact, I&#8217;m a little scared of how much of an increase in &#8220;demands&#8221; put on us might occur. It&#8217;s a social annoyance I could do without.</p>
<p>The other thing is, a lot of sane, rational potential English teachers &#8212; the ones who aren&#8217;t lifers, but are competent and would be good for a few years &#8212; will probably gravitate to where it&#8217;s easier. After all, I wasn&#8217;t a TESOL genius when I first came here, but I certainly couldn&#8217;t have come for my first job if it had required a long wait for a criminal record. I don&#8217;t think US hiring practices, or French ones, are anywhere near as last-minute as hiring (and so many other things) are here in Korea.  </p>
<p>Those who complain about the need for a criminal record check are silly; those who complain about the need for a criminal record check in a timeframe that is impossible by the rates of the countries where most foreign workers come from are more understandable. If the date for implementation hadn&#8217;t have been changed, my post would have been far more negative.</p>
<p>Also, one point of comparison is Japan. It&#8217;s long been more demanding for foreigners to get themselves set up in Japan than in Korea, or so I&#8217;ve heard, but there are still a lot of dumbass white frat boys running around there. So maybe it won&#8217;t affect much except reducing the flow of those teachers not quite specifically interested enough in Korea to to brave the process, but not so unqualified as the frat boys who are so common here now.  </p>
<p>After all, the good-foreigner/bad-foreigner dichotomy leaves out a huge patch in the middle, which is people who are fine, do their jobs as well as your average Korean in the same position, but aren&#8217;t particularly brilliant&#8230; qualified enough, but not superstars. Frankly, the pay and conditions in most positions here aren&#8217;t good enough to attract superstars, which is part of the reason there are so many losers here &#8212; better pay and conditions, as well as hiring based on skills and qualification instead of more superficial factors, would have the standard effect of making better competitors apply and win the majority of jobs, leaving the frat boys back home in Oshawa and Frederickton and Minnesota or wherever.</p>
<p>Also, I think it&#8217;s crazy to require someone to get a visa for a new job in his or her home country. Any country outside of the one where the job will be worked should suffice, and it&#8217;s a ridiculous expense to require for no apparent reason, especially for those flying to Canada, the USA, Europe, or Australia. I don&#8217;t know whether that particular rule has been scrapped, but it&#8217;s annoying that something as dumb as that is included in what, as I say, could instead have been quite a sensible piece of legislation. (Likewise the annotation of diplomas; the use of sealed, signed transcripts sent from the Universities where the applicant graduated directly to the hiring organization should suffice, just as &#8212; to my knowledge &#8212; they do in the rest of the developed world.)</p>
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		<title>By: Jérôme Carujo</title>
		<link>http://www.gordsellar.com/2007/12/24/passports-and-immigration-and-low-quality-foreigners/comment-page-1/#comment-27835</link>
		<dc:creator>Jérôme Carujo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Dec 2007 12:12:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gordsellar.com/2007/12/24/passports-and-immigration-and-low-quality-foreigners/#comment-27835</guid>
		<description>Thank you, thank you, thank you for this post.

All English blogs so far have just been so critical of this new visa procedure that I had given up on reading something not as extreme.

When I went teaching French in the USA, I was asked for a criminal record. I have to say that I now find it highly amusing to see the American bloggers with their &quot;how dare the Koreans ask us this&quot;. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black...

As you say, if it becomes harder to come to Korea, maybe the fratboys will go elsewhere.
I sure won&#039;t miss them.

The ones coming to teach here will have at least shown a real commitment, and it can&#039;t be bad.
One can also hope that if there&#039;s a shortage of teachers, then, maybe, we might be treated a little bit better. Yeah, I guess you can call me an optimist for this...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, thank you, thank you for this post.</p>
<p>All English blogs so far have just been so critical of this new visa procedure that I had given up on reading something not as extreme.</p>
<p>When I went teaching French in the USA, I was asked for a criminal record. I have to say that I now find it highly amusing to see the American bloggers with their &#8220;how dare the Koreans ask us this&#8221;. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black&#8230;</p>
<p>As you say, if it becomes harder to come to Korea, maybe the fratboys will go elsewhere.<br />
I sure won&#8217;t miss them.</p>
<p>The ones coming to teach here will have at least shown a real commitment, and it can&#8217;t be bad.<br />
One can also hope that if there&#8217;s a shortage of teachers, then, maybe, we might be treated a little bit better. Yeah, I guess you can call me an optimist for this&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://www.gordsellar.com/2007/12/24/passports-and-immigration-and-low-quality-foreigners/comment-page-1/#comment-27832</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Dec 2007 11:37:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gordsellar.com/2007/12/24/passports-and-immigration-and-low-quality-foreigners/#comment-27832</guid>
		<description>Alcohol addiction? Double standard aside, how do you check for alcohol addiction anyway? Hold a glass of whiskey in front of someone and see how long they can resist it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alcohol addiction? Double standard aside, how do you check for alcohol addiction anyway? Hold a glass of whiskey in front of someone and see how long they can resist it?</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.gordsellar.com/2007/12/24/passports-and-immigration-and-low-quality-foreigners/comment-page-1/#comment-27824</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Dec 2007 06:35:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gordsellar.com/2007/12/24/passports-and-immigration-and-low-quality-foreigners/#comment-27824</guid>
		<description>Heh. I used to live, and do private lessons, less than five blocks down the street from the Immigration Office in Seoul. The family I would do lessons for had done government work in the past, so usually one or two weeks before an immigration &quot;crack down&quot; they would take a break from lessons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heh. I used to live, and do private lessons, less than five blocks down the street from the Immigration Office in Seoul. The family I would do lessons for had done government work in the past, so usually one or two weeks before an immigration &#8220;crack down&#8221; they would take a break from lessons.</p>
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