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	<title>Comments on: Free Speech? F*ck You, Citizens!</title>
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		<title>By: gordsellar</title>
		<link>http://www.gordsellar.com/2008/05/08/free-speech-fck-you-citizens/comment-page-1/#comment-31520</link>
		<dc:creator>gordsellar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 10:38:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gordsellar.com/2008/05/08/free-speech-fck-you-citizens/#comment-31520</guid>
		<description>Roboseyo, 

Well, yeah, those other, more authoritarian tendencies need to be watched. I think that&#039;s why my students are also leery of him, and I have to admit, he discomfits me. But I find comparisons with Bush a little more palatable. 

(And reasonable, aside from the infrastructure issue. Actually, I think Korea needs more transport infrastructure too, though not of the canal kind. I mean better and more usable &lt;i&gt;public&lt;/i&gt; transport and fixing the damned Seoul bottleneck problem. Traffic into Seoul from the South is just insanely jammed almost every time I&#039;ve taken the Honam Expressway into the city.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Roboseyo, </p>
<p>Well, yeah, those other, more authoritarian tendencies need to be watched. I think that&#8217;s why my students are also leery of him, and I have to admit, he discomfits me. But I find comparisons with Bush a little more palatable. </p>
<p>(And reasonable, aside from the infrastructure issue. Actually, I think Korea needs more transport infrastructure too, though not of the canal kind. I mean better and more usable <i>public</i> transport and fixing the damned Seoul bottleneck problem. Traffic into Seoul from the South is just insanely jammed almost every time I&#8217;ve taken the Honam Expressway into the city.)</p>
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		<title>By: Roboseyo</title>
		<link>http://www.gordsellar.com/2008/05/08/free-speech-fck-you-citizens/comment-page-1/#comment-31518</link>
		<dc:creator>Roboseyo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 06:23:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gordsellar.com/2008/05/08/free-speech-fck-you-citizens/#comment-31518</guid>
		<description>In drawing the LMB/Park Chunghee parallel, I wasn&#039;t just referring to this supposed, possible suppression of dissent:

-both also share a tendency toward concentration of power around the president, 

-both have shown signs of wanting to control the press (remember the &quot;list&quot; of journalists, including left/right bias and personal information, that LMB compiled during the transition?) 

-both seem to think close, even hand-in-glove ties  between chaebols and the government will solve the country&#039;s economic problems 

-both also believe Korea needs more transportation infrastructure (canal, anyone?)

-- I didn&#039;t mean LMB&#039;s planning to drag me out of my home for criticizing me, or open fire on student protesters (though he&#039;s vowed to be harder on protesters than Roh Moo-hyun was).

Anyway, he&#039;s got my attention, and I&#039;ll be watching everything he does with a jaded eye from here on in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In drawing the LMB/Park Chunghee parallel, I wasn&#8217;t just referring to this supposed, possible suppression of dissent:</p>
<p>-both also share a tendency toward concentration of power around the president, </p>
<p>-both have shown signs of wanting to control the press (remember the &#8220;list&#8221; of journalists, including left/right bias and personal information, that LMB compiled during the transition?) </p>
<p>-both seem to think close, even hand-in-glove ties  between chaebols and the government will solve the country&#8217;s economic problems </p>
<p>-both also believe Korea needs more transportation infrastructure (canal, anyone?)</p>
<p>&#8211; I didn&#8217;t mean LMB&#8217;s planning to drag me out of my home for criticizing me, or open fire on student protesters (though he&#8217;s vowed to be harder on protesters than Roh Moo-hyun was).</p>
<p>Anyway, he&#8217;s got my attention, and I&#8217;ll be watching everything he does with a jaded eye from here on in.</p>
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		<title>By: gordsellar</title>
		<link>http://www.gordsellar.com/2008/05/08/free-speech-fck-you-citizens/comment-page-1/#comment-31511</link>
		<dc:creator>gordsellar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 14:54:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gordsellar.com/2008/05/08/free-speech-fck-you-citizens/#comment-31511</guid>
		<description>Daniel, 

Your post was in the spam filter when I replied to Charles and Roboseyo. Sorry about that!

Do you have a source on that charge? I haven&#039;t heard anything about that so far, and that would be something I&#039;d &lt;i&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; be cool with. However, I do know that those who organized the flashmob also did a lot of discussion and announcing online; my fiancee didn&#039;t come across anything like that bald-faced lie. 

But even if misinformation is happening, I don&#039;t think crackdowns and arrests are a sensible response. The sensible response would be a very open, rational, balanced presentation of the issues and arguments as to why it is safe, on national TV. No distortions or dismissals of the fears; honest discussion. Whatever nonsense was used to fuel fears, public trust will not be gained by doing what looks like silencing opposition. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Daniel, </p>
<p>Your post was in the spam filter when I replied to Charles and Roboseyo. Sorry about that!</p>
<p>Do you have a source on that charge? I haven&#8217;t heard anything about that so far, and that would be something I&#8217;d <i>not</i> be cool with. However, I do know that those who organized the flashmob also did a lot of discussion and announcing online; my fiancee didn&#8217;t come across anything like that bald-faced lie. </p>
<p>But even if misinformation is happening, I don&#8217;t think crackdowns and arrests are a sensible response. The sensible response would be a very open, rational, balanced presentation of the issues and arguments as to why it is safe, on national TV. No distortions or dismissals of the fears; honest discussion. Whatever nonsense was used to fuel fears, public trust will not be gained by doing what looks like silencing opposition.</p>
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		<title>By: gordsellar</title>
		<link>http://www.gordsellar.com/2008/05/08/free-speech-fck-you-citizens/comment-page-1/#comment-31508</link>
		<dc:creator>gordsellar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 13:38:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gordsellar.com/2008/05/08/free-speech-fck-you-citizens/#comment-31508</guid>
		<description>Guys, 

Well, &lt;i&gt;I&#039;m&lt;/i&gt; not going to be comparing till I&#039;m dragged out of my classroom over blog postings, but... as I said, what&#039;s giving me the chills is the number of students who seemingly independently have started up conversations with me about it, and made the comparison (or comparisons like it) themselves.

I think there should be laws against obstruction of business because otherwise every group with a petty cause could get away with picketing businesses all year long. People with legitimate grievances should be willing and able to obstruct business, and the law shouldn&#039;t be abused, but I think at some point in a society whose economy depends on business, it&#039;s important to have a way of forcing the issue and letting business happen. 

What&#039;s scary is that nobody&#039;s yet selling the beef being protested now; &quot;obstruction of business&quot; isn&#039;t even a coherent charge until businesses are actually selling the stuff. Till then, it&#039;s just consensus-building. 

By the way, Lime tells me I shouldn&#039;t worry about being dragged out of my classroom; she says that the kinds of things she&#039;s seen posted in the Korean net are much more extreme, including the sort of thing that would provoke a visit from guys in black suits and sunglasses if it were happening in the US. (And I don&#039;t mean Will Smith.)

I do think there&#039;s some value in pointing out autocratic tendencies on the right, especially to highlight a kind of heredity of mindset. It&#039;s a useful political move, and warranted. (And given the fact that enough of the polity seems to have been moved to vote for Lee out of either self-interest, acceptance of the (unsupported and very vague) idea he&#039;d be &quot;good for the economy&quot;, or Protestant solildarity, I&#039;m wondering whether it won&#039;t be a useful sound byte in a few years&#039; time, when the next election looms like the shadow of a space station falling out of orbit. 

But calling anyone Park Jr. at &lt;i&gt;this&lt;/i&gt; point would be more problematic... unless, of course, it really was literally a Park Jr. in office.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guys, </p>
<p>Well, <i>I&#8217;m</i> not going to be comparing till I&#8217;m dragged out of my classroom over blog postings, but&#8230; as I said, what&#8217;s giving me the chills is the number of students who seemingly independently have started up conversations with me about it, and made the comparison (or comparisons like it) themselves.</p>
<p>I think there should be laws against obstruction of business because otherwise every group with a petty cause could get away with picketing businesses all year long. People with legitimate grievances should be willing and able to obstruct business, and the law shouldn&#8217;t be abused, but I think at some point in a society whose economy depends on business, it&#8217;s important to have a way of forcing the issue and letting business happen. </p>
<p>What&#8217;s scary is that nobody&#8217;s yet selling the beef being protested now; &#8220;obstruction of business&#8221; isn&#8217;t even a coherent charge until businesses are actually selling the stuff. Till then, it&#8217;s just consensus-building. </p>
<p>By the way, Lime tells me I shouldn&#8217;t worry about being dragged out of my classroom; she says that the kinds of things she&#8217;s seen posted in the Korean net are much more extreme, including the sort of thing that would provoke a visit from guys in black suits and sunglasses if it were happening in the US. (And I don&#8217;t mean Will Smith.)</p>
<p>I do think there&#8217;s some value in pointing out autocratic tendencies on the right, especially to highlight a kind of heredity of mindset. It&#8217;s a useful political move, and warranted. (And given the fact that enough of the polity seems to have been moved to vote for Lee out of either self-interest, acceptance of the (unsupported and very vague) idea he&#8217;d be &#8220;good for the economy&#8221;, or Protestant solildarity, I&#8217;m wondering whether it won&#8217;t be a useful sound byte in a few years&#8217; time, when the next election looms like the shadow of a space station falling out of orbit. </p>
<p>But calling anyone Park Jr. at <i>this</i> point would be more problematic&#8230; unless, of course, it really was literally a Park Jr. in office.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles</title>
		<link>http://www.gordsellar.com/2008/05/08/free-speech-fck-you-citizens/comment-page-1/#comment-31506</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 09:28:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gordsellar.com/2008/05/08/free-speech-fck-you-citizens/#comment-31506</guid>
		<description>1) It&#039;s not so much the fact that publishing information online is considered &quot;obstruction of business&quot; that bothers me, it&#039;s the fact that there is a law against &quot;obstruction of business&quot; in the first place.

2) Please, please, please, do not give in to hysteria and start comparing Korea&#039;s leaders today with the military dictatorships during which people were killed for disagreeing with the government. Are current developments worrying? Yes. But let&#039;s not go all Godwin here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1) It&#8217;s not so much the fact that publishing information online is considered &#8220;obstruction of business&#8221; that bothers me, it&#8217;s the fact that there is a law against &#8220;obstruction of business&#8221; in the first place.</p>
<p>2) Please, please, please, do not give in to hysteria and start comparing Korea&#8217;s leaders today with the military dictatorships during which people were killed for disagreeing with the government. Are current developments worrying? Yes. But let&#8217;s not go all Godwin here.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://www.gordsellar.com/2008/05/08/free-speech-fck-you-citizens/comment-page-1/#comment-31505</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 08:30:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gordsellar.com/2008/05/08/free-speech-fck-you-citizens/#comment-31505</guid>
		<description>So it&#039;s Ok for industry representatives to incite public demonstrations by sending false messages like &quot;First victim of mad cow disease found on May 2. This is not a rumor, but reality. Come to the rally at Cheonggye Plaza at 7 p.m. tomorrow.&quot; ??

Sounds like yelling &quot;fire&quot; in a crowded theater to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So it&#8217;s Ok for industry representatives to incite public demonstrations by sending false messages like &#8220;First victim of mad cow disease found on May 2. This is not a rumor, but reality. Come to the rally at Cheonggye Plaza at 7 p.m. tomorrow.&#8221; ??</p>
<p>Sounds like yelling &#8220;fire&#8221; in a crowded theater to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Roboseyo</title>
		<link>http://www.gordsellar.com/2008/05/08/free-speech-fck-you-citizens/comment-page-1/#comment-31504</link>
		<dc:creator>Roboseyo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 07:43:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gordsellar.com/2008/05/08/free-speech-fck-you-citizens/#comment-31504</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s ironic that the politician LMB resembles more every day is the father of his old GNP nomination rival, Park Geun-hye.

Welcome to Park Chung-hee redux: the Bulldozer era of Korean politics.

sigh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s ironic that the politician LMB resembles more every day is the father of his old GNP nomination rival, Park Geun-hye.</p>
<p>Welcome to Park Chung-hee redux: the Bulldozer era of Korean politics.</p>
<p>sigh.</p>
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